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PostPosted: March 24th, 2017, 5:13 am 
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Proper aircraft employment would change the image of the game. But the question remains, how do aircrafts work on every planet, with conditions diametrally different from those Earthlike? The rockets seem to work anyway.


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PostPosted: March 25th, 2017, 1:28 am 
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Darkon wrote:
Proper aircraft employment would change the image of the game. But the question remains, how do aircrafts work on every planet, with conditions diametrally different from those Earthlike? The rockets seem to work anyway.


Thankfully, BZII is pure fantasy so they could theoretically work any way you want them to work. Considering some worlds have no gravity you'd think that all units might quite literally just float away. I noticed that aircraft odf settings can make aircraft behave just like hovercraft if you set cruising speed to 0 or even a negative value to make them fly backwards even. The AI is not configured well for these values as they tend to just sit there while enemy units blast them out of the air.

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PostPosted: March 25th, 2017, 3:30 am 
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There is difference between fantasy and science-fiction, but yes, BZ2 is rather on the fantasy flavour of science-fiction, meaning more Star Wars than for example the original from 1998. But again, who knows how the future will look like? On the other hand, to keep the convention we must stick to some standards according with how presently we understand science and reasonable solutions.

When it comes to aircrafts in BZ2, do you actually mean pilotable units moving in expanded dimensions compared to hovercrafts?


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PostPosted: March 25th, 2017, 7:10 am 
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BZ2 doesn't change its physics from planet-to-planet; doing so in a game in 1999 would have required an awful lot of work. The 1.3 patch introduced a "gravity" setting that can be changed map-to-map but it largely goes unused. BZ2 doesn't take into acount things like atmospheric density and its effect on drag and lift, so you'll find aircraft will behave pretty much the same whichever map or gravity setting you use them on.

@Edgrr: Fun physics fact; there are no worlds with no gravity, and there is nowhere in the universe where you can experience true zero gravity. ;)

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PostPosted: March 25th, 2017, 11:11 am 
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From my experience at setting odf cruising speed settings to 0 causes the aircraft to hover in place and setting the minimum speed to a negative value causes them to move backwards; hence, hover like if you see what I mean. These kinds of settings are mainly hacks as aircraft by design mostly can't move backwards or hover in place unless you refer to aircraft like the Harrier VTOL. Aircraft class is pretty cool but the BZII engine sadly is not optimized for the class and probably never will from the feedback I've gotten over the years. Why it was included in the original release baffles me to this day as it probably should never have been implemented at all. I've heard on other forums that BZII was rushed out and never really compares well with the original Battlezone game. I love the modding aspect of BZII, but it sorely lacks a lot of aspects of real time battle. I mean who ever heard of any military force that lacked air based combat support? Sad, if you ask me. :-??

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PostPosted: March 25th, 2017, 11:24 am 
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Ded10c wrote:
BZ2 doesn't change its physics from planet-to-planet; doing so in a game in 1999 would have required an awful lot of work. The 1.3 patch introduced a "gravity" setting that can be changed map-to-map but it largely goes unused. BZ2 doesn't take into acount things like atmospheric density and its effect on drag and lift, so you'll find aircraft will behave pretty much the same whichever map or gravity setting you use them on.

@Edgrr: Fun physics fact; there are no worlds with no gravity, and there is nowhere in the universe where you can experience true zero gravity. ;)


The physics is BZII are horrible bro; in fact they tend to defy them in some cases. The AI are pretty sad as well. I think that's why so many modders have found it necessary to resort to odf hacks to get around them to make the game a bit more playable.

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PostPosted: March 25th, 2017, 12:41 pm 
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BZ2 never included true aircraft because its pathing and AI code works, like most other RTS games, in 2D. Aircraft require pathing on the vertical axis as well, so getting them to work perfectly requires more work than they're really worth. Most late-90s RTS games aren't capable of this either, and I'm not sure why you brought up BZ1 because it definitely doesn't have verticality.

It wasn't included in the original release because it wasn't necessary.

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PostPosted: March 25th, 2017, 5:04 pm 
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Ded10c wrote:
BZ2 doesn't change its physics from planet-to-planet; doing so in a game in 1999 would have required an awful lot of work

Though there are dedicated powerplants to certain types of planets or moons in the classic Battlezone.


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PostPosted: March 25th, 2017, 7:37 pm 
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Actually, there aren't.

The four types of power plants (solar, wind, lightning) are functionally exactly the same. The only differences between them are in their size and health. Multiplayer recyclers always use the solar power plants, unless you're playing a modded MPI map where the developer has specifically set another one up to be used. In single-player and instant action, which power plant you use is defined by the mission itself rather the map it is set on, and the defaults is solar.

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PostPosted: March 26th, 2017, 5:43 am 
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Actually, there aren't.

The four types of power plants (solar, wind, lightning) are functionally exactly the same. The only differences between them are in their size and health. Multiplayer recyclers always use the solar power plants, unless you're playing a modded MPI map where the developer has specifically set another one up to be used. In single-player and instant action, which power plant you use is defined by the mission itself rather the map it is set on, and the defaults is solar.

Hard to tell how this relates to aircraft models, but how does your explanation hold up your negation? I suggest to take this discussion, along with allready offtopic posts, to some other thread to allow Edgrr continue withou too much interruption.


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PostPosted: March 26th, 2017, 8:18 am 
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Which power plant is used is not determined by the planet; the manual says certain generators will only work on certain planets, but in actuality they all work on all maps, the differences between them are purely aesthetic, and which generator is used is decided based on what the map's designer wanted it to use.

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PostPosted: March 26th, 2017, 11:02 am 
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That this is of purely aesthetic difference matters little, taking what you said, that doing actual mechanical differences between environments could severely burden the project with overambitious goals, as well as affect the online play I would add. There is a seed of difference with adaptation to environmental conditions present in Battlezone already.


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