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Should 15 second invulnerability be applied to both pilots and empty scouts?
Poll ended at November 5th, 2016, 2:39 pm
Yes, apply to empties as well 46%  46%  [ 6 ]
No, only apply to pilots 54%  54%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 13
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PostPosted: October 28th, 2016, 2:39 pm 
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ASSUMING THE PERMANENT INVULNERABILITY BUG IS FIXED

Should the VSR DLL feature of 15 second invulnerability apply to respawning pilots AND empties, or just pilots?

As it is, the invulnerability expires on empties as soon as a player gets in, and on pilots as soon as they start shooting, or ofcourse when the time period expires.

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2016, 10:52 am 
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As Snake has pointed out, it would make empty stealing a problem.

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2016, 11:46 am 
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if the feature stays it shouldnt be 15 seconds. 15 seconds is a looooong time. should be at most 2-3 seconds so that the pilot has enuff time to get in the empty without the empty getting damaged from motars or crossfire.

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2016, 12:45 pm 
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I don't buy this reasoning.
If a pilot is about to get into an empty being made, you cancel it.

Think logically...

Scenario A: The empty ships are being pummeled with mortars, getting flared, or lasered by accident and dropped to half health or destroyed before the players can get in, or a noob in the game doesn't know the moral rules of strat and destroys them.

Scenario B: With a pilot in the base, the empty was built without being canceled, and nobody is on the rec pad to take it (and presumably nobody watching it to kill it in the first place since it wasn't canceled), so the enemy pilot will manages to get into it without it getting damaged before they hop in.

I think Scenario A occurs far more times as frequently as Scenario B. That's why I've voted to keep empty invulnerability.


Are these votes to get rid of it simply out of mistrust for GBD's abilities to implement it properly without bugs?

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2016, 4:12 pm 
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I understand your reasoning. I personally am against any kind of invulnerability, but will accept pilot. My main reasoning is this. Whether for or against invulnerability, each argument basically relies on the ability of people to play smarter. Empties now invulnerable? Just cancel them, SIMPLE (ruling out all the massive variables that could be in effect -> cmdr outside base, etc.). Your base is being mortared down and the vast majority of people who can defend it are dead? WTF was the defending team doing to get themselves into this situation? Play smarter (again, ruling out all the massive variables that could be in effect). If the arguments for both sides are the same, then I vote to just keep it how it was. Of course, I am open to changing my mind. This is just how I see it as it currently stands.

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2016, 4:41 pm 
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Your base is being mortared down and the vast majority of people who can defend it are dead? WTF was the defending team doing to get themselves into this situation?

The exact same reasoning can be applied to empty killing or spawn killing pilots in the first place.
If we all embraced dropping spawn raping as a moral rule, then there would no longer be a need for this discussion.

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I understand your reasoning. I personally am against any kind of invulnerability

Why? Do you know how lame it is to be spawned by a mortar ass tank or a 2-3 mtr bikes where could you get into an empty, you'd still have a small chance to fight it off, but cannot because you die before your feet touch the rec pad?
It takes 1 or 2 chain empties to hover down an ass tank.

Or especially the scenario you personally popularized... Blast/Las Tanks that primarily use Mortar to destroy buildings.

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2016, 5:42 pm 
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I personally have never cared much about "lame" tactics. I would suggest a dll change for empty invulnerability about the same time I would suggest a dll change to prevent 4+ las scouts ala Silver commanding. I can see how pilot killing would be bad with mtrs, so I agree with that change even though my mindset is still to just play smarter (I've had full-empty teams b4 against blast tanks; I do not try to engage but rather get one guy on bay asap, for instance). Even though I personally like the ability to shoot empties down to red (I have a pilot in mid who is coming back to base and I want an empty up for him but on red just in case enemy is nearby, for example), if you guys do go with invulnerability, 15 seconds is a lonng time in a strat. Furthermore, whats the point of even having pilots spawn above rec then? Why not just make pilot spawn point immediately on pad with invulnerability then if we are so concerned about mtrs?

I leave with one more note. In 1.2 strats we used to have this thing called base defense that prevented a lot of these blitzkrieg-style rushes into heart of your base. It has been largely abandoned because no one knows how to hover/base check anymore so they would just be scrap deliveries. Are we fixing game-flaws or pandering to incompetence?

edit: the "WTF" sentence above was meant to just show how ridiculous those arguments sound because the whole context of the situations is not taken into account.

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2016, 7:20 pm 
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I personally have never cared much about "lame" tactics.

Never? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/520 ... 20shit.mp3 (response to a walker destroying a sniped empty)

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Why not just make pilot spawn point immediately on pad with invulnerability then if we are so concerned about mtrs?

Because it's still in a random area coplanar to the verticle axis. I don't know if this is a hardcoded feature or not.

But really, I don't personally care, just reasoning. I wouldn't even care if we got rid of the whole moral rules of empty killing and pilot spawning. It sucks when it happens to you, but it's pretty much game over anyway. Host on losing end can just /leave and start a new game.


Also, who are you calling incompetent?

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PostPosted: October 29th, 2016, 9:24 pm 
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IMO change empty back to vulnerable.

If someone wants to be a dickhead and DMG the pilotless empty scout then let em do it. The only reason why empties would be damaged or stolen would be during a base camp anyway. If there's a big silver style camp (as sly said) or any camp the scout isn't expected very long anyway. So if the commander has any IQ they should have empties q'd during a camp anyhow.

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Last edited by Tom on October 30th, 2016, 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: October 30th, 2016, 10:25 am 
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we could enable invulnerability on ALL ships.
there are some advantages this would have namely:
    lower death toll in our wars.
    fewer butthurt players.
    this discussion would be over.
    noone likes to die, this way they dont have to.

the war between scion, isdf, hadean and daedlian has been going on for long enough and caused enough death and suffering.

i suggest another option is added, the option: make all human units invulnerable

god bless you all and god bless america.
def4332221

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PostPosted: October 30th, 2016, 10:49 am 
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I wasn't calling anyone bad or incompetent. I just wanna make sure we are very careful not to make changes based on what could just be something that might be avoidable by changing our play styles. It just sets a bad precedent. For instance, I was very opposed to changing sniper range when it was first suggested a while ago. This was primarily because I thought that it was something we could just get accustomed to like any other big change in tactics (my stance on it has changed obviously after more games where I have both done the ruining and had the game ruined for me due to long-range snipe fests that leave the weaker, more cautious team screwed). Although I am still against it, I will side with whatever the majority asks for. The main reason is because I see maybe one out of, I dunno, 40 games where this happens? Most of my strats are resolved without much incident. This applies not only to mtr camp, but any other tactic that might be considered lame too. It is pretty infrequent that I see empty killing, killing pilots on rec pad and then jumping into empties, etc.. If we do make them invulnerable, we will at least see how it goes in strats and can discuss later if needed.

Oh and getting mad about a lame tactic is much different from going on forums trying to get it removed :)

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PostPosted: October 30th, 2016, 11:38 am 
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Oh and getting mad about a lame tactic is much different from going on forums trying to get it removed

But that's the opposite of what I'm doing, this thread is about removing the game mechanic for empty invulnerability (which has been in VSR for YEARS), not adding it.

I've only defended empty invuln because I thought I was defending the majority of the community's view, if that's not the case, or is, either way, I don't care personally. I wouldn't even mind dropping all moral rules for BZ2.

Honestly, that recording got you pretty good, it's a complete 180 jump from your statement. Absolute PROOF you care despite stating the opposite. PROVEN beyond a shadow of doubt. PROVEN. You're done man, there really is just nothing you can say except "Good job you caught me in a lie trapped in panties". :)

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