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 Post subject: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 25th, 2016, 5:09 pm 
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I don't know what kind of testing you guys did but the whole empty invulernability needs to go. I don't think its such a great idea because not only do we get bugs like this but now we have no way to prevent someone from stealing empty. We cant shoot it to get it low before enemy pilot gets inside it. Pilot Invulnerability is fine but there is no need to add empty invulnerability to the list.



The scavs are way too easy to push and move around. I don't think this was a needed change.

Arc still requires overseer for some reason? I know the arguement is "5 arc empties omg OP" but isdf full scouts and isdf msl scouts will rape scion empties without blink. It doesnt matter if you have arc, sonic, or rave cannon on it. isdf will still have the range advantage. The whole thing that sparked these ideas and kickstarted VSR 6 was a discussion i had with Rush over blink.

Blink ammo usage change wasnt needed either. I think we are overdoing it when it comes to blink. Keep in mind i am a very Anti-Scion person so to me all these changes are great since scion will get owned but for bigger picture the tech change is enuff.

Adding the Extra features is great however. Such as including the 10-player scoreboard fix by ZA, the colored weapon reticle that indicates if Special Weapon is ON or OFF, and the f12 select all teammates for painting. However alot of ppl alrdy have the f12 select all included in their newkeys and if they do then f12 wont work at all. Deleting the entry in newkeys will fix it.

Overall its great but we just need to keep ourselves from changing too much. It is very tempting to start thinking about changing other things when we are alrdy on the topic. Changing too little makes us think that we are not doing enuff and that a patch should require alot of changes but it doesnt. Only core mechanics such as the delay on scrap bar being removed and Gun Spire Aim fix are useful additions. That whole discussion about jammers proves the point. When was the last time i've seen a jammer built? I can't even remember the last time i saw one. We are talking and putting effort into balacning jammers when its probably never gonna come up in a 5v5 / 4v4 / or even 1v1 strategy. The only reason it came up in the first place was because u guys were testing so u werent playing hard to win the game but rather for the sake of testing. 10 titans on field as well. In a practical game if they have 10 titans and you dont have an answer then you have lost the game. No need to spend time thinking "How can i change things so that my opponent having 10 titans on field doesnt lose me the game."

New maps are great btw. GJ Blade and Vearie.

@Dom, I know you are paranoid and think i suggested these changes to make the scion matchup more favorable but i suggested arc and blink to be swapped. I had nothing to do with Arc still requiring overseer.

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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 25th, 2016, 6:08 pm 
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The test games were authentic 1v1s unless something unusual occurred that needed an immediate followup. (despite domakus pretending they were only test games on the ones he lost!)

Scion have a lot of buffs as well.
Blink's effectiveness was reduced because we don't want it to just be "/leave blink warriors" at the 20 minute mark instead of the 7 minute mark.

Scavengers have identical mass to VSR 5.0, so what you are describing must be a placebo.

Quote:
Adding the Extra features is great however. Such as including the 10-player scoreboard fix by ZA, the colored weapon reticle that indicates if Special Weapon is ON or OFF, and the f12 select all teammates for painting. However alot of ppl alrdy have the f12 select all included in their newkeys and if they do then f12 wont work at all. Deleting the entry in newkeys will fix it.

These were already included in VSR before, I just made them optional. The coloured weapon reticles is the only new addition.
Conflicting problems like you describe are the reason they were made optional.



What GBD really needs is test cases to figure out what results in empties remaining invulnerable past the x second time period.
Did anyone join and enter game while the empty was being built for example, or a timely resync.

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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 25th, 2016, 6:11 pm 
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I thought it was placebo too but they really are easy to push. Kebbz will tell u as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 25th, 2016, 6:19 pm 
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Im glad it was released as now we can have consistent testing rather than a few 1v1 or 2v2s every other week. Even told Vearie more testing was needed however there just isn't enough time or players to test it without involving the community. With it being fully released we can all join in on finding and resolving issues for 6.1

@Snake not sure why im mentioned but ok...

As for the invulv empty from that one game. I believe Tom joined which may have caused the glitch.

I know players rejoining have caused perma invulv ships in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 26th, 2016, 12:14 pm 
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I don't know what was changed with the scavs but they are *definitely* easier to push around now. They're easier to push away (I almost flipped one over) and they go off their treads when pushed long enough, that is certain.


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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 26th, 2016, 3:34 pm 
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Scavenger push test

https://youtu.be/gL8wOK8BL-I


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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 26th, 2016, 4:35 pm 
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VSR 5.2 ISDF Scavenger ODF had these attributes, all of which are removed from VSR 6.0 ODF:

Code:
[CraftClass]
MIN_BOUNCE_VEL = 3.0 // 0.5 is Default. << Different
GROUND_ELASTICITY = 0.3125 // *0.03125 is Default. << Different.

[TrackedVehicleClass]
UseGlobalFriction = true // *false // Default is false. << Different.
GlobalFrictionMaxThrottle = 0.04f // Default value.
GlobalFrictionMaxHeight = 2.0f // Default value.
GlobalFrictionStaticCoeff = 0.04f // Default value.
GlobalFrictionDynamicCoeff = 0.6f // 0.4f //0.24f is default value. << Different.

COLLISION_RAISE =  -0.4 // -0.5 is Default. << Different.
SUSPENSION_MIN = -0.2 // Default.
SUSPENSION_MAX = 0.3 // Default.
SPRING_FACTOR = 2.0 // minimum value: 0.01. // Default.
DAMPING_FACTOR = 2.0 // 2.0 = critical damped, minimum value: 0.01 // Default.


VSR 5.2 ODF didn't have this, but VSR 6.0 does:

Code:
[TrackedVehicleClass]
TREAD_STATIC_FRICTION=5.0



*shrugs* Vearie said he tested all those variables and thought they did nothing. I guess some of these do have effects on collision/pushability. If I had to guess, i'd say the GlobalFriction stuff probably makes them harder to push.

So, I recommend making the scav ODFs have this:

Code:
[CraftClass]
MIN_BOUNCE_VEL = 3.0 // 0.5 is Default. << Different
GROUND_ELASTICITY = 0.3125 // *0.03125 is Default. << Different.

[TrackedVehicleClass]
UseGlobalFriction = true // *false // Default is false. << Different.
GlobalFrictionDynamicCoeff = 0.6f // 0.4f //0.24f is default value. << Different.
COLLISION_RAISE =  -0.4 // -0.5 is Default. << Different.

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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 26th, 2016, 4:52 pm 
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Keep in mind ZA had put all of those settings in the ISDF scavenger and only the ISDF scavenger alone, other races were exempt.

Scavs are still loads harder to push than in 1.2, I'm not sure exaclty what pushability level vets are looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 26th, 2016, 7:13 pm 
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Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:41 pm
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I was happy with the VSR 5.0 specs for the scavenger pushability. If reverting is considered a good idea, at least.


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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 26th, 2016, 8:58 pm 
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I said vets

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 Post subject: Re: Addressing VSR 6.0
PostPosted: October 28th, 2016, 5:15 pm 
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Joined: November 3rd, 2011, 8:00 pm
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I think that we should remove empty invulnerability, but keep pilot as Snake says.

I think that the scav pushing should be tested more.

I believe that arc empties are some of the most powerful units in this game that will WRECK your shit, even if you have blast.

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