BATTLEZONE COMMUNITY FORUMS

Battlezone I & II Download, Gaming & Development
It is currently January 20th, 2018, 7:01 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: April 7th, 2015, 9:41 am 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: November 3rd, 2011, 8:00 pm
Posts: 981
Observation:
I have noticed that in some random games, I will get an AV stating that an incorrect parameter has been passed to something something. I cannot actually get the message as my entire OS freezes each time this happens.

On some MPI maps, like 6 way hilo, the game crashes for me almost always upon start.

On some FFA maps, recyclers will spawn too close to a scrap pool and will not deploy for the remainder of the game.

Suggestions:
The ISDF AI do not utilize bombers at all. I would love to see bombers used more in these games.

The AI should be given whatever resources needed to send mid-level tech units (msl scouts, stock tanks, mtr bikes if talking about isdf) at a much earlier point in the game (I would say around the 3 minute mark). I know this may seem like overkill, but you must remember that VSR is the VET recycler variant (newbs need not apply).

The AI should attack with greater numbers. I would say, add whatever resources are needed to send at least 1 more of each unit that is originally sent. This means, however long it takes to make those 3 stock sabres, try to keep the scrap boost high enough so that 4 stock tanks can be produced and sent out as soon as possible. I am not saying that build speeds of these units should be altered, but am suggesting that if there is some time in between that third sabre coming out, that it should be reduced to 0 and that the 4th sabre should be built immediately after the third and sent to attack the base normally afterwards. EX: If 3 scouts and 3 sabres are sent to attack a base, then this time it should be 4 scouts and 4 sabres.

Limit the usage of comet rckt tanks -- they are more annoying than effective.

I LOVE the isdf walkers. I usually see pairs of 3 walkers (at stab, pl, and sp) coming at my base. I would love it if a fourth walker with blast could be among those units.

I realize that creating a fourth unit of everything would drastically increase build times for the set, but consider perhaps keeping pressure up on the human base with scouts until all factory units are built.

I don't know if its possible, but if all else fails, then I would suggest just, if possible within the constraints of keeping VSR compatible with stock 1.3, decrease the build times of units coming out of facts and recs. If this isn't possible, then I might even be willing to concede having another factory if possible, but I am very anxious about this idea as I wouldn't want this to go the way of Red Devil's mods.

I do not know if the AI for VSR is still even being worked on, but these are just my suggestions on how the experience could be made better. Domakus and I have been playing a lot of these mpis together, so you can imagine that it would probably take quite a strong AI to best us :D

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 7th, 2015, 2:49 pm 
User avatar
Moderator
Offline

Joined: March 13th, 2005, 3:54 pm
Posts: 572
Location: dallas tx
Yeah, the AV has been fixed in private since, I should poke ZA to release a 5.1 soon.





*poke*

_________________
Image
*****General BlackDragon*****


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 7th, 2015, 9:30 pm 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: November 3rd, 2011, 8:00 pm
Posts: 981
Noblesse oblige. I pray for your continuing service as a VSR savior.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 8th, 2015, 11:10 am 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: December 30th, 2013, 2:28 pm
Posts: 170
Can confirm recs not deploying when too near a base pool. I second bigger attack groups and rate-of-attack (halving build time sounds pretty nice to me). MPIs aren't too difficult with 2+ players atm imo.

Would be nice to see AI fortifying their pools/territory. Perhaps have AI constructors find nearest available area to pool and build multiple gts, spires, defenders, etc. (or even just in any open areas around the map, as this would further disrupt human forces traveling around).

I notice AI still sends rats out, but they don't seem to deploy near pools all the time, just in random spots on the map. Would be nice if a larger subset of those rats also went to defend pools specifically. I think this (in addition to gtowers and the like), would make it more difficult mid-to-late game to overtake pools. Basically, pools should become mini-bases.

Would be nice to see frenzy base rush attacks, where the AI ignores anything attacking it and focuses on rushing key buildings within the base (e.g. powers, factory, maybe even rec). Any forces attacking the base are too easily distracted by base defenses or a human shooting them. Would be cool to see 8 or 10 tanks/warriors (fang!) base rush, or even heavy units like assault tanks/maulers/etc. It would force humans to keep inner base defenses intact.

This is probably all way too much to ask for, but thought I'd throw my $0.02 in anyways. Thanks for your work on this GBD et al.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 8th, 2015, 1:51 pm 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:41 pm
Posts: 402
Also, it'd be cool to see Hads build hedouxes and the stronger variants of the Zeus. Right now, the only ones I saw on the field were the Zeus MCs. It's only challenging at the start, but mid-to-late game it gets a little monotonous once you get field control.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 9th, 2015, 7:57 pm 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: January 28th, 2005, 8:07 pm
Posts: 1071
Location: 3926991712050
How hard is it to make different types of AI plans in MPI? Each race should be able to have different tactics (AI plans) to choose from. I think it would make it a whole lot interesting.

Also, what about implementing RacePluto or CTF, or even Loot to make it more challenging in VSR? All this time we have been working on VSR strats., now if we can move forward and upgrade CTF AI and RacePluto AI, it would be worthwhile. Maybe we can include Blades new ship design. Now wouldn't that be awesome to have some badass looking ship in CTF or RacePluto, or even Loot for that matter.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 9th, 2015, 10:43 pm 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:41 pm
Posts: 402
Sentient wrote:
Also, what about implementing RacePluto or CTF, or even Loot to make it more challenging in VSR? All this time we have been working on VSR strats., now if we can move forward and upgrade CTF AI and RacePluto AI, it would be worthwhile.


Do I smell sarcasm? :ymhug:

:P


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 10th, 2015, 12:42 am 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: October 19th, 2011, 3:11 pm
Posts: 1851
Location: Tier 1.99
i have a suggestion - do not put blink on ai warriors omg pls that is very stoopid


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 10th, 2015, 12:04 pm 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: November 3rd, 2011, 8:00 pm
Posts: 981
Meh, we do what we can to have fun now that strats are nonexistent in the zone. Wanna help bz2 stay alive? Try staying on ts3 for more than 3 secs after logon.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 10th, 2015, 12:09 pm 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:41 pm
Posts: 402
I look forward to 5v5s. [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 14th, 2015, 2:00 am 
User avatar
Admin
Offline

Joined: March 15th, 2006, 7:35 am
Posts: 2159
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Sly wrote:
-post-

Awesome. Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Can't disagree with any of these.

I've always disliked AIPs that relied on scrap boost too much (most of the stock 1.3 AIPs have hardcoded scrap boost, so the scrap boost options dont even work). Been trying to make the AIPs challenging while keeping the scrap boost low. Might have to bump it up a bit if it's too easy for people and we can't improve the AI plan enough to compensate.

The fourth unit thing is easy enough to pull off. We can just create unit variations that have just the changes we want (e.g. faster build times, cheaper scrap costs for specific units, etc) and have em used by CPU teams only. It might hinder an idea that I am thinking would be good for a future VSR, "AI Take Over" for commanderless teams, but GBD and I can figure out how to cross that bridge if we get there.

Quote:
Yeah, the AV has been fixed in private since, I should poke ZA to release a 5.1 soon.
*poke*

Sounds good. I'm willing to continue work on VSR 5.1.
FireBlade wrote:
Can confirm recs not deploying when too near a base pool. I second bigger attack groups and rate-of-attack (halving build time sounds pretty nice to me). MPIs aren't too difficult with 2+ players atm imo.

Would be nice to see AI fortifying their pools/territory. Perhaps have AI constructors find nearest available area to pool and build multiple gts, spires, defenders, etc. (or even just in any open areas around the map, as this would further disrupt human forces traveling around).

I notice AI still sends rats out, but they don't seem to deploy ne

In regards to recs not deploying when too near a base pool. Let me know of any maps where that's a problem.

Having AI set up more defenses near pools will have to be something we'll have to tweak for each map as these rely on path points, mostly. I'll talk with GBD and see if we can't get the DLL to handle this in a way that doesn't involve placing path points on every single map.

Can you explain the rat thing better?

Blaedicus wrote:
Also, it'd be cool to see Hads build hedouxes and the stronger variants of the Zeus. Right now, the only ones I saw on the field were the Zeus MCs. It's only challenging at the start, but mid-to-late game it gets a little monotonous once you get field control.


Noted. Hadean AIP needs a bit more work. I thought that the Zeus MC weapons were randomized but we might just limit the randomization of the hadeans in particular, and have them build their vehicle variants as normal. Or even have a subset of units in the army have randomized weapons while later teched ones also have randomized weapons, but ones that are more appropriate for their tech level (e.g. so no lategame xares using combat laser). A lot of things are possible with how we can choose to do AI weapon selection, but looking at the Zeus thing is a good start.

Sentient wrote:
How hard is it to make different types of AI plans in MPI? Each race should be able to have different tactics (AI plans) to choose from. I think it would make it a whole lot interesting.

Not too hard, actually.

I originally had a guy named sabre doing AIPs but he lost interest halfway through and I took over, to get them to all be in a playable state. His contributions are still appreciated though as I didn't want to do AIPs in the first place and he made my job a lot easier by starting em for me.

So far, each race only uses a single AI plan, and we already have it set up in VSR 5.0 that the CPU teams *could* use different AI plans (e.g. VSR_i1.aip, VSR_i2.aip) and those files exist in VSR 5.0, but right now they're just copy-pastes of the *0.aip plans -- and in VSR 5.0 the only thing the *1.aip *2.aip and *3.aip files are used for is for FFA where multiple AI teams are involved (*0.aip files are for the CPU teams in regular VSR MPI and the first AI team in FFA, *1.aip files are for the second AI team of that race in FFA, *2.aip is third team, etc).
Anyways, we just need to find people who are willing to write the AI Plans and then we can have it set up so that the CPU teams select a random AI plan to use.

Writing AIPs is not my favorite thing to do by far, but writing VSR AIPs is *much* simpler than writing stock AIPs, it's just the testing and re-testing of the AIPs thats time consuming. You have to be willing to play an MPI game, find problems with the AI Plan, and go back and edit the AIP file, then do it all again until you get it to a point where you're satisfied.
Quote:
Also, what about implementing RacePluto or CTF, or even Loot to make it more challenging in VSR? All this time we have been working on VSR strats., now if we can move forward and upgrade CTF AI and RacePluto AI, it would be worthwhile. Maybe we can include Blades new ship design. Now wouldn't that be awesome to have some badass looking ship in CTF or RacePluto, or even Loot for that matter.

If we do ships with new experimental AIs, it'll probably have to wait for VSR 5.2.

_________________
Regulators.
Regulate any stealin' of this biometal pool. We're damn good too.
But you can't be any geek off the street.
Gotta be handy with the chains if you know what I mean.
Earn your keep.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 14th, 2015, 9:18 am 
User avatar
Offline

Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 2:41 pm
Posts: 402
Another problem to note: The base area on Lizard's Crystal Castles is way too small and most of the green you can't build in for reasons unknown to me. Either take it out or maybe fix the base area. As of now, it's unplayable. I spawned on the bottom right corner, don't know if this is the situation for all bases areas.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


PLEASE SUPPORT US BY MAKING A DONATION TO BZ2MAPS.US!

ALL DONATIONS WILL GO DIRECTLY TOWARD HOSTING AND SUPPORT COSTS OF BZ2MAPS.US ~ THANK YOU!

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Copyright © 2011 BZ2MAPS.US