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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 9:28 am 
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Sly wrote:
Wish list request:

*note, normal means 1.3 stock*

In some sort of scion-experimental, implement the following changes:
revert blink to normal
revert any changes made to emp to normal
revert any changes for archer and its weapons (popper, acid cloud etc.) to normal
revert any changes to lancer and its weapons (multi lock, etc.) to normal
revert any sort of effects that may have been added to scion weapons to normal
keep rest of changes to scions, like changes made to scouts, etc.

I don't know how many people agree with me, and this is why its only on my wish list. I believe scions to be a disgrace at the moment. I liked my scions the way they were in 1.2, when you actually had to have skill and not a lancer turtle (replaces the 1-2 pool empty canceling turtle) while saving up for warriors in order to achieve victory. I also liked that warriors had unlimited blink, as this circumvented a lot of the BS that is going on right now in terms of sniping (I calculated my last scion snipe avg on warriors from the past 5 games, and it is LITERALLY 4 warrior snipes per game - unacceptable, my last scion game I got 6). Warriors in 1.2 were the backbone of scions, and that is what I liked. They supported all other strategies (archer spots with guardian/warriors to hit bases, titan assaults with healers and warriors defending, etc.). I think lancers aren't THAT bad, but again, it isn't what I saw in 1.2, and therefore it is irrelevant in my eyes. Call me selfish, but that is what my wish list is, an experimental version where we can see just how balanced stock-like scions are compared to the VSR version of ISDF.

Again, I understand some people's desire to play a disgusting amalgamation of pseudo-scion filth, but I am a 1.2 purist, not some SC2 korean, and enjoy the strategies forged during the time of 1.2-style scions.

I'd be willing to try it out, to be honest. It's a great idea because it can eventually be used to improve the other variants too.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 4:33 pm 
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Quote:
In some sort of scion-experimental, implement the following changes:
revert blink to normal
revert any changes made to emp to normal
revert any changes for archer and its weapons (popper, acid cloud etc.) to normal
revert any changes to lancer and its weapons (multi lock, etc.) to normal
revert any sort of effects that may have been added to scion weapons to normal
keep rest of changes to scions, like changes made to scouts, etc.


changes made to emp were to make it more like 1.2 bruh

I'd be interested in testing this with the boys, a no blink delay but obviously higher ammo costing blink (it costs next to nothing atm) if arc omegakick wasn't bugged emp could be used for distance travel (to account for the lack of gauss) and blink could be made how it is in 1.2 (higher ammo costing but super hektic). really the only reason I can possibly understand blink is how it is: warrior pilots relied way too much on using arc gauss or quill gauss. gauss uses so much fucking ammo, it's a waste really. If you just arc or just quill something in base you can destroy a few buildings then blink out rather than blink in, get a power to yellow then blink out.

so yeah id like to try a more 1.2 styled blink, buffing the personal qualities of a warrior (sonic, etc) BUT

warriors are already god units, removing the delay I think would make a slight different in how much they get sniped but once they do AND THEY WILL they will be pretty invincible.

Quote:
I believe scions to be a disgrace at the moment. I liked my scions the way they were in 1.2, when you actually had to have skill and not a lancer turtle (replaces the 1-2 pool empty canceling turtle)


straight up, you're one of the only players recently that will go for a lancer turtle. as soon as an arm hits the field it is 100% useless. ive had better results with a stock unit with just blink and abso, and as a matriarch cannot lose power and is usually not the building of choice to kill when a stronghold is out i use plasma abso blink fulls and they are pretty good man.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 5:08 pm 
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I'd like to implement the changes first and test before talking about any what-ifs or this-is-exactly-what-will-happen.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 7:09 pm 
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I would have no interest in ever cmding vs classic scion.
It's a very stupid game type that just results in the boring (and often long) inevitable end of ISDF if they get warriors, or a pointless short game if they don't.

I think blink delay is such a good balance change that it should even be implemented in stock.

It's a retarded concept in the first place that the only way to even fight back against scion is to try to steal their near-invincible craft.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 8:32 pm 
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I disagree. Either way, scion games these days end up being snipe-fests. I am interested in reverting them to a close stock mode so that changes can be suggested in a VERY controlled and strict environment, with only 1-2 changes being made at any given time.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 10:10 pm 
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If my post doesn't describe *exactly* what classic scion vs isdf is then explain why.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 10:17 pm 
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I don't necessarily want only stock scions. I want to revert them to a more stock-like state so that we can then add on changes slowly and ponderouSly without having sneack stuff dropped in that we don't know about.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 15th, 2014, 10:23 pm 
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I agree with cloaket 100%

Either way (stock scions or vsr scions) the warrior is going to get sniped. Blink delay has no impact on whether or not a warrior is easier to snipe.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 16th, 2014, 8:32 am 
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I disagree with that. Blink delay has a number of impacts on sniping. I don't know if many here are familiar with 1.2 scions. In 1.2, a bay would get blink-spammed constantly to get rid of snipers (now, all scions do is try and avoid the bay while hitting base). Furthermore, my base hits in 1.2 while I knew there was a sniper involved lots of blinking (although not a whole lot of damage to buildings). I honestly don't care if others use the variant, I mainly want it there so that I can do my own testing with 1-2 people who have agreed to help me, which can then lead to suggestions in the main VSR variant while at the same time furthering the changes in this suggested variant. A lot of the testing actually won't be strat-based, as that is not where a lot of the problems lie. From my point of view, nothing has changed in terms of scion balance. An equal scion-isdf team always ends up with the warriors coming to the not-yet-scion-proof isdf base and raping its upgrades slowly but surely. Of the last 10 games I have been isdf against scion, all of my strategies have eventually fallen back to trying to get snipes. It is a completely different strategy if you start off a game expecting to fight blink vs trying to end the game. The latter usually involves extremely close-call base hits where the result is either an isdf victory by preventing a ship coming out from the forge or dying, giving the scions more loose, and then having to fall back on the good ol snipe game again. I wouldn't be making these posts if I actually saw any decent scion vs isdf late-game out-in-the-field battles that didn't have ISDF relying heavily on some kind of AI-support units. Sure, scion are better at fighting early game now, but a competent isdf commander will almost always go for the bay com bunk strategy and have pulse-las raping the scions in no time.

Again, my proposal is so that I can try and get a better feel for balance by starting from scratch (you don't have to join my games BTW :) ). Some of my main reasons for wanting to try this come from Cloaket, who I will somewhat mis-quote as saying in many games: "Scions are just a pussy race that rely on pussy hiding in base and trying desperately to get a 2nd pool for 1 second in order to get stronghold to win." In 1.2, when I got a warrior snipe, it was a treasured object that I used cautiously. These games, I can get my entire team into pumm warriors if they are competent enough to keep them.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 16th, 2014, 9:36 am 
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Mortarion wrote:
I'd be interested in testing this with the boys, a no blink delay but obviously higher ammo costing blink (it costs next to nothing atm) if arc omegakick wasn't bugged emp could be used for distance travel (to account for the lack of gauss) and blink could be made how it is in 1.2 (higher ammo costing but super hektic). really the only reason I can possibly understand blink is how it is: warrior pilots relied way too much on using arc gauss or quill gauss. gauss uses so much f**k ammo, it's a waste really. If you just arc or just quill something in base you can destroy a few buildings then blink out rather than blink in, get a power to yellow then blink out.


Yeah Gauss indeed uses way too much ammo, and it's not like it's the best weapon in the game or anything.

So I don't think there'd be a problem in buffing them (make it less ammo consuming) perhaps in turn for nerfing the range or ROF a bit. Assault Gauss is a pretty f**king good weapon if you ask me, great range and combined with Quill/Fang it can easily rape any given undefended base.

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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 16th, 2014, 8:58 pm 
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Mr_Scorpion wrote:
Yeah Gauss indeed uses way too much ammo, and it's not like it's the best weapon in the game or anything.

So I don't think there'd be a problem in buffing them (make it less ammo consuming) perhaps in turn for nerfing the range or ROF a bit. Assault Gauss is a pretty f**king good weapon if you ask me, great range and combined with Quill/Fang it can easily rape any given undefended base.

Well, lowering its ROF while keeping its DPS the same (and if that was the only change) could make it more slightly more effective as a general combat weapon (because you can use its cooldown to aim it more carefully) and lowering its range even by something like 10m would make the arc/gauss warr have to get closer to endgame combat tanks (sabre, xares) to dish out maximum damage which would be even more dangerous to the warrior pilot, but lower ammo usage means you could rely a lot more on gauss to boost damage so long as you were within that range (since its not such an ammo hog). The end result is that it would encourage more aggressive warrior play to maximize DPS, or more careful long-range warrior combat with reduced DPS as the tradeoff (fighting at arc max range instead of gauss max range).

Seems risky to touch gauss though.

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Regulators.
Regulate any stealin' of this biometal pool. We're damn good too.
But you can't be any geek off the street.
Gotta be handy with the chains if you know what I mean.
Earn your keep.


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 Post subject: Re: VSR Wish List
PostPosted: August 16th, 2014, 9:34 pm 
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do not touch gauss, also greenguy im sorry but you have 0 credibility in this game - saying that you see no problem with buffing gauss is an example of that.

the only sane (but unneeded) buff for gauss would be to make the crate cost 20 instead of 30 - the weapon itself is perfectly good as it is. it is beyond my fucking comprehension why you would think it needs a change

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