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PostPosted: April 18th, 2017, 4:16 am 
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The lack of ability to use flashlight and ranged weapons simultaneously was one of Doom 3's more interesting design choices, and it was perhaps the biggest one that moved it more towards horror than action. The duct tape mod significantly changes its atmosphere. That said, the BFG edition does exactly the same.

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PostPosted: April 18th, 2017, 8:36 am 
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People used to complain about Doom 3 BFG edition, since it was incompatible with most mods at the time it was released, as well as the officially upgraded graphics presumablu did less well than some mods in bringing the game to a better performance, basing on comments. But nowadays there seems to be a fair deal of mods compatible with BFG, but the discord is still present. About flashlight, I saw in some footages that the one featured in BFG edition - "armour mounted" - needs to recharge every once in a while, therefore permanent use is also compromised.


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PostPosted: April 18th, 2017, 9:46 am 
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Compromising permanent use does allow the BFG to retain some of the atmosphere of the original that would otherwise have been lost. It's worthwhile given that it can be picked up fairly cheap these days.

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PostPosted: April 20th, 2017, 6:12 am 
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Just found out there is a Brutal Doom 64 available from Sergeant Mark IV on ModDB, which is an interpretation of the levels from Doom 64 on Brutal Doom terms. Fresh release.


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PostPosted: April 20th, 2017, 6:49 am 
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The Brutal Doom Starter Pack v20b runs initially basing on a datafile named "FreeDoom 2.0". Quite decent to make the game playable right off the bat without further requirements - especially that it is a mod at the core - but the word says FreeDoom - a recreation of the Doom gameplay features - is unpolished at times. If to want to play the game basing on stable solutions, one needs either the Doom 2 datafile or one of the two Final Doom files, that is "TNT" or "Plutonia".

Final Doom on STEAM is currently half the price cheaper than Doom 2, which the latter one costs ten euro, ridiculous. The classic Doom complete pack costs fifteen euro at the moment. GOG provides Doom 2 plus Final Foom for about five euro. Regarding Final Doom, heard mixed opinions about it, stating the difficulty level is steep compared to the previous games, as well as that "Plutonia" campaign is unbalanced. It is a fanmade thing. Anyway, if to go for the lowest price, probably Final Doom should be the choice, nevertheless Brutal Doom v21 promises some revamped levels for Doom 2 campaign, which is an argument for Doom 2 base.

What bothers me though is the everlasting work in progress, such as with OpenXCOM for UFO Enemy Unkown. Updates are released so often it is almost certain one is most of the time playing an outdated version. That is why for thorough playthrough I would choose some properly stabilized past iteration.


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PostPosted: April 20th, 2017, 10:34 am 
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Darkon wrote:
Just found out there is a Brutal Doom 64 available from Sergeant Mark IV on ModDB, which is an interpretation of the levels from Doom 64 on Brutal Doom terms. Fresh release.


I would suggest looking at Doom64 EX instead, which is a direct port. Brutal Doom 64 and the Absolution TC have to use different versions of the Doom 64 levels for legal reasons; Doom64 EX works around that and is perfectly accurate to the N64 game.

Darkon wrote:
Regarding Final Doom, heard mixed opinions about it, stating the difficulty level is steep compared to the previous games, as well as that "Plutonia" campaign is unbalanced. It is a fanmade thing.

Final Doom and the Master Levels were developed under contract from id Software. They're about as much fan-made as Thy Flesh Consumed, Doom's fourth episode. The fan-made stuff is in Maximum Doom, which is extremely hard to find these days.

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PostPosted: April 20th, 2017, 11:49 am 
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I am hardly any devoted Doom fan to the extent where I would be digging the game more than Quake 2. But a good sourceport or mod does change the deal, though I would have to actually dig the case to find what is the best choice for myself out there, so here is a little paradox. Maybe a good recommendation would solve the problem, in lack of which an old rule of following the voice of majority better should do. Albet I think that simpler games, such as regular shooters, do inspire towards seeking variety from mods and tweaks more than exhausting and elaborate plays, such as Battlezone, as long as the base engine is promising.

When I was younger - that is back in the days - I used to play a lot a game entitled Blood, nowadays extended with a name addon: "One Unit Whole Blood". Cousin to the old Duke Nukem 3D. By the way, Brutal Doom does remind me a lot of Duke Nukem 3D in a good way. Whatever to say about this Sergeant Mike IV, he has some impressive results to his work to the point where I would say he is an artist.

EDIT:

Perhaps other modders are artists as well, with me just lacking info on good comparison.


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PostPosted: April 20th, 2017, 10:46 pm 
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Ded10c wrote:
I would suggest looking at Doom64 EX instead, which is a direct port. Brutal Doom 64 and the Absolution TC have to use different versions of the Doom 64 levels for legal reasons; Doom64 EX works around that and is perfectly accurate to the N64 game.

Accuracy plays little role as long as the gameplay itself is worth it, which would make the interpretation a selfstanding title in the extreme cases of difference. Unless someone cares to particularly play the original classic for some reason, but then updated quality matters little.

Ded10c wrote:
Final Doom and the Master Levels were developed under contract from id Software. They're about as much fan-made as Thy Flesh Consumed, Doom's fourth episode. The fan-made stuff is in Maximum Doom, which is extremely hard to find these days.

Wiki says the guys who made at least one campaign featured in Final Doom advertised themselves directly to the Doom franchise owners, suggesting they wanted to promote their work above the abundant background already present at the time. It would be far better if they were handpicked by Doom producers from among the modders community basing on the quality of work done. The fact that straight after having advertised their levels, these Final Doom contributors signed a contract to earn money on their stuff looks rather loose. Unless what would later appear under the name "Plutonia" excuses this misdoing. Well, does it? Besides, how does an official contract make fan works any better than freely available other complete works built with passion? Perhaps only the demand of completion is the argument here, since plenty of mods end up as declarations.

This is how it is done right:
Quote:
Work on TNT: Evilution was started by TeamTNT, a group of WAD-making hobbyists who were active on the advanced Doom editing mailing list. Just days before it was to be released as a free download online, the project was acquired by id Software, and finished in November 1995.


This is how it is done wrong:
Quote:
Brothers Dario and Milo Casali, who had contributed four levels to TNT: Evilution, were assigned the task of creating what became The Plutonia Experiment after having sent an eight-level WAD they had created to American McGee and managing to impress him along with the rest of the id Software crew. They created 16 levels each for The Plutonia Experiment in four months time, and submitted them in January 1996.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Doom

EDIT:

If a big company copies ideas from a modder as transparently as the Doom 2016 developers did in relation to Brutal Doom, it speaks very well about the modder. Wondering though what is the legal standpoint about it, since if the modder appeared a nasty prick in the end, he could have sued the developers, hoping for big money. But I believe even in case of lack of formal agreement, what defines a true modder, empowering also the creativity, is the unbound approach, primarily unbound by money but by passion, making the effort honest.


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PostPosted: April 21st, 2017, 5:32 am 
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Darkon wrote:
If a big company copies ideas from a modder as transparently as the Doom 2016 developers did in relation to Brutal Doom, it speaks very well about the modder. Wondering though what is the legal standpoint about it, since if the modder appeared a nasty prick in the end, he could have sued the developers, hoping for big money. But I believe even in case of lack of formal agreement, what defines a true modder, empowering also the creativity, is the unbound approach, primarily unbound by money but by passion, making the effort honest.


Similar ideas does not mean copied ideas. Do you suppose that SgtMarkIV's ideas were original, or would it be more accurate to say that he was inspired by the design decisions made by more modern games? Is it not more likely that, as a modern game, the new Doom was simply following those same trends?


Regards Final Doom, well, modding was in its infancy in those days. It was still in its infancy in 1998 when exactly the same thing happened with Battlezone: Battle Grounds. But publisher support is everything; that's what makes them official campaigns, rather than mere mods. Bear in mind that Thy Flesh Consumed was similarly developed out-of-house.

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PostPosted: April 21st, 2017, 6:39 am 
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Ded10c wrote:
Similar ideas does not mean copied ideas. Do you suppose that SgtMarkIV's ideas were original, or would it be more accurate to say that he was inspired by the design decisions made by more modern games? Is it not more likely that, as a modern game, the new Doom was simply following those same trends?

Can you propose what titles featuring distinctive gameplay patterns would ignite introducing matching patterns in Brutal Doom?

Ded10c wrote:
But publisher support is everything; that's what makes them official campaigns, rather than mere mods. Bear in mind that Thy Flesh Consumed was similarly developed out-of-house.

What about Doom 3 Redux mod versus the BFG edition? Redux is unofficial. The publishers support is almost entirely the case of authority, meaning for some reason this or that improvement is more important than the others, while unnecessarily it means it is the best improvement one can get. Although it is probable that further game evolvement - official and unofficial - will try to remain compatible with given officially approved mod.

I imagine modding was simpler back in the days. Nowadays it is more the case of whether the game is moddable - that is, mod-friendly - or not. Some mods will always appear but it is the case of how much skill and determination is needed to introduce anything sophisticated and sensible enough to a game already elaborate.


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PostPosted: April 21st, 2017, 7:02 am 
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Darkon wrote:
Can you propose what titles featuring distinctive gameplay patterns would ignite introducing matching patterns in Brutal Doom?
The list would be much shorter if you suggested features of Brutal Doom that you felt were unique. That's not to say that Doom took no inspiration from Brutal Doom... but the features of the new Doom that are visible in Brutal Doom are mostly ones that were originally intended for the original Doom, which is where Brutal Doom got the idea in the first place. So is this merely the new Doom aiming to do what the old Doom could have, but didn't?

Darkon wrote:
What about Doom 3 Redux mod versus the BFG edition? Redux is unofficial. The publishers support is almost entirely the case of authority, meaning for some reason this or that improvement is more important than the others, while unnecessarily it means it is the best improvement one can get. Although it is probable that further game evolvement - official and unofficial - will try to remain compatible with given officially approved mod.
I think you've answered your own question here.

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