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PostPosted: March 20th, 2017, 1:01 pm 
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Besides, once Manson is called part of the Scion, then he is entitled a rebel, apparently lacking any Scion clue or support whatsoever. If Manson has become part of the Scion, is it appropriate to call him a traitor, since he is as good as dead? In fact, Manson was stuck in a dead end scenario. What Manson says in the beginning of a mission where the protagonist initally pilots the Atilla Walker portrays him yet as a proper traitor - that he abandoned Bruddock because Bruddock acted the way he acted. Scion theme is completely missing. It gives me an impression the mentioned level was created separately and thus looks detached from the consistency of the story, being only an ISDF inner collision, while it is understandable Scion has a lot to do with it.


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PostPosted: March 20th, 2017, 4:46 pm 
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You're right about A Traitor's Fate having being created separately from the rest of the campaign. The original 15th mission was removed from the game, along with missions 18 and 19, and mission 20 was moved to cover the gap. The remains of ISDF15 are still in the game's files.

By this point you should have heard Braddock explain the truth. Play the audio messages Braddock sends to Cooke shortly before Hole In One. Once you've completed the next two missions you'll want to play the Scion campaign to fill in the rest of the gaps.

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PostPosted: March 21st, 2017, 11:29 am 
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Beated the ISDF15 mission, it was more of a leisure type one. Secured position in the destroyed enemy base. When the Rebels took out my squad - as the force advantage was theirs - after ejecting I landed on a ledge and sniped them down, since they were all in sight and motionless. I noticed later my Atilla Walker survived, so the better, assisting now a captured Sabre - for the battle I commandeered Assault Tank. The latter Assault Tank of the Rebels was little problem with Atilla Walker help.

The voice briefing in ISDF16 - "A Hole in One" - is a perfect example how the narrative employs poor quality emotional manipulation to make the player feel guilty or disgusted with the side assumed to represent - ISDF - simultaneously producing the feeling of entire story being rather cheap. I believe what Braddock stands for is nothing out of ordinary in the heavy duty governmental level militant world. The things told have been either going on or thoroughly considered ever since any sides sophisticated enough collided in a race of arms.

I think what the story fails to tell is that Cook is deep in the same mud as Braddock and they can speak openly about subjects that otherwise would cause some severe cognitive shock to a hippie minded person. They are people of war and Battlezone 2 tells story of war, a severe conflict away from Earth and oftentimes away from humanism and humanity. If one is to feel disgusted, it is to be felt about all what happens, about an entire big picture of destruction succumbing succesively ever more. If there is madness, it consumes more than just one leader or soldier. Madness is a state, but this time the state means a place with expanding borders.


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PostPosted: March 21st, 2017, 11:52 am 
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What I like are the loading screen monologues of the protagonist. They allow to explore the stance of the main hero about things he encounters and needs to deal with. They do the job in explaining why he is still there doing what he does, shedding some light of personal insight.


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PostPosted: March 21st, 2017, 11:54 am 
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ISDF16:

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Cook, the intelligence reports that the Scions have targeted you for assassination and are sending their Maulers after you.

Yes, that definitely makes them look like martyrs.

EDIT:

The Maulers actually came to kill the protagonist.


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PostPosted: March 21st, 2017, 2:49 pm 
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Darkon wrote:
The voice briefing in ISDF16 - "A Hole in One" - is a perfect example how the narrative employs poor quality emotional manipulation to make the player feel guilty or disgusted with the side assumed to represent - ISDF - simultaneously producing the feeling of entire story being rather cheap. I believe what Braddock stands for is nothing out of ordinary in the heavy duty governmental level militant world. The things told have been either going on or thoroughly considered ever since any sides sophisticated enough collided in a race of arms.


This being the part where Braddock outlines his plans to commit genocide against a group of people who were forced against their will through a series of unethical experiments that he operated and that left some of them crippled, and to then use the technology and resources gained from doing so to wage war against the governments of Earth to install himself as Supreme Ruler, correct? The conclusion of the character arc that was specifically foreshadowed by the "need to succeed that could become problematic if left unchecked" and "strong sense of self-worth and [...] highly-developed Ego" described in his psychological assessment?

Narratologically speaking, Braddock's character background is a near-perfect play-by-play of any mad-scientist-bent-on-world-domination you care to name. He's a cookie-cutter science-fiction villain.

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PostPosted: March 22nd, 2017, 12:54 am 
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My typical assumption about warrying parties is that they are all worth one another. It is a problem of other nature than what they are - maybe some of them stand on different level of advancement than their counterparts. The problem is how they choose to behave and what decisions they make in building their path ahead. If they let themselves be succumbed into a swirl of conflict on terms dictated by other sides of this conflict, then they set themselves as matching the prevailing mindset. It is as if you see an otherwise considerable person, typically solemn, who suddenly gets involved in a street wrangle with people of utterly different social status. What I try to tell is that Scion and ISDF are probably both right if to dig who is right, even if Scion has a potential to become a better race, culture and civilization. If they were so superior, they would have let go, find some other place in the universe and live in peace. But they were probably still too human.


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PostPosted: March 22nd, 2017, 5:19 am 
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Darkon wrote:
My typical assumption about warrying parties is that they are all worth one another. It is a problem of other nature than what they are - maybe some of them stand on different level of advancement than their counterparts. The problem is how they choose to behave and what decisions they make in building their path ahead. If they let themselves be succumbed into a swirl of conflict on terms dictated by other sides of this conflict, then they set themselves as matching the prevailing mindset. It is as if you see an otherwise considerable person, typically solemn, who suddenly gets involved in a street wrangle with people of utterly different social status. What I try to tell is that Scion and ISDF are probably both right if to dig who is right, even if Scion has a potential to become a better race, culture and civilization. If they were so superior, they would have let go, find some other place in the universe and live in peace. But they were probably still too human.


Parts of this are both correct and astute, but not necessarily completely relevant to the context. The Scion campaign will explain all that, when you get around to playing it.

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PostPosted: March 23rd, 2017, 2:14 pm 
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Beated the level "Hole in One". It follows the same pattern as each previous mission, but the player needs to act especially coordinated and without delay here, surviving at least one very lethal attack in the beginning, before the base has had an occasion to get properly established. Typically I loose a tank in the mentioned early ambush but an on quick built Scout with the aid of already present Rocket Tanks manage to get down the remaining Titans. Apart from that, lots of Maulers to expect eventually. After the rough beginning, when the Extractors are placed and the Constructor is working on upgrading them, I just Gun Tower my base back and forth with a second Constructor, remembering to check out the backyard in case of Archers. Having done that, it all becomes clear. Just mind to deploy the Recycler near the biometal pools. It will leave a lot of room for the battleground where the Scions will leave their biometal Scrap behind, quickening the ISDF development.

In mission resolution, primarily I used Assault Tanks, but popularly occuring Maulers have an advantage above these units. Besides, Assault Tanks are slow and clumsy, tending to get stuck on environmental obstacles, which is just enfuriating to the player. They have quite a good aim though. In the first big mission attempt I was accidentally killed after destroying both Scion bases while searching for the Core Entrance. In the second big attempt I used upgraded Sabres which did good job especially against the Maulers - since Maulers were confused with these fast moving hovercrafts - even though Sabres have terrible aim and it takes a good while for them to get down a solitary unit, particularly when firing en masse. Fortunately it is easier for the Sabres against big structures.

What stopped and frustrated me for a while was the time it took me to come to a conclusion I need to find the Core Entrance myself instead of just with my units. But the futurourbanistic Core Planet looks beautiful with SITE Camera on, I recommend to have a tour that way. Also, despite having destroyed both Scion encampments and taking their biometal pools, they kept pressing with even greater force than before, suggesting they just arbitrarily spawned somewhere.

In mission resolution, what speaks for faster units instead of slow Assault Tanks or Atilla Walkers is that in the end, there is a certain enemy convoy to be destroyed before it reaches the Core Entrance. Slow units could fail to make it on time if the player searches for the Entrance alone - taking first time experience - so this could be tricky if fast units are in disregard. In my case, upgraded Sabres did the job again.

This way or the other, mission done. Braddock wrote a history book about him being a hero with a shadow, but everything ending up well with the war put down. Burns, the Scion Leader sounds like a crazed AI making reproaches to Braddock for attempting to eradicate him, while Braddock mainly focuses on the notion of ending the war he ignited himself. The sides seem to be worth one another, but differ in the level of pretentiousness to myself. Scion clearly has an agenda, probably it was only the Core dependency that kept them on a leash, but certainly they were working on how to bypass that restriction. They were too human to give up the temptation of spreading themselves as a ruling force over the universe.

Someone had to end it and with Scions it seemed just more work with the same result.


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PostPosted: March 24th, 2017, 12:51 pm 
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Beated the last ISDF mission, the almost suicide commando. Liked it, reminded me a lot of Descent game. I also liked how the game transparently announced there is a parallel storyline, as well as how to comfortably access it without even have to replay the stage where the alternative decision was to be taken. Good that. Though maybe I should, just to hear the ingame narrative and actually do it, for whatever the reason.


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PostPosted: March 26th, 2017, 11:49 am 
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Quote:
They [Scions] are a peaceful race. All they want is what is best to the Universe. All they want is a new home.

Yup, sounds just right to myself. Mow'em down.

So eventually it comes out Scions do accuse Braddock of bombing the Fregate. Well, why should they not?


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PostPosted: March 26th, 2017, 12:00 pm 
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Quote:
[The goal of the Scions was to] bring the Enlightened culture and technology of the Cthonians back to Earth.

Ded10c wrote:
and to then use the technology and resources gained from doing so to wage war against the governments of Earth to install himself as Supreme Ruler, correct?

Yes. What did you expect? Santa claus?

ISDF are bad, bad people for warring Scions.


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